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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>#6
only works if someone is willing to step forward to personally guarantee the
loan with the bank. Tim is unable.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If
somebody was willing to step up…this would solve all the problems. We
could buy whatever we wanted.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bob<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
eefc-core-bounces@workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces@workingcode.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Mike Lysik<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, April 11, 2009
5:12 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Eagle East Flying Club Core
Team<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: sample numbers<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Bob</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can you ask Tim if he would go for item-6 on
Todd's list below? Example: If we go with 976 for $18k, + $10k for
430W(installed) + some $ for xponder(does this come with the 430W?) + some
money for whatever general upgrades the cockpit and panel need(do the VOR's
work? one may be broken) + $20k for engine + anything else =
total cost of plane to be financed by our group, guranteed by Eagle East.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Mike</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
<a href="mailto:toddmbs@yahoo.com" title="toddmbs@yahoo.com">Todd Brooks</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
<a href="mailto:eefc-core@workingcode.com" title="eefc-core@workingcode.com">Eagle
East Flying Club Core Team</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
Saturday, April 11, 2009 4:19 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
RE: sample numbers<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Nice work guys. I need to wake earlier I
guess!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>After reading the slew of emails, I have a few
thoughts:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>1. The survey let me complete it without answering
it and then I couldn't go back.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>2. If we finance a plane for 10 years it
actually comes out to very little $ per member with regards to the plane
itself. It's the other fixed costs that really add up. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>3. I think the number of members will only slightly
affect the monthly dues. Here is why I say this: if we only have 10
members the likelihood of us buying another plane is slim; so we
will only have to cover our costs to a minimum and contribute to the
savings account with a reasonable amount. However if we have 20 members then
we will want to buy another plane and if the dues are the same then that
extra money will go into the savings for another plane. Does that make
sense?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>4. I say finance as much as possible. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>5. The initial down-payment could be structured to
where a member gets vested after so much of a time period.
This will first lock in a member so they don't just leave after a month and
we're stuck with less cash. It also gives some of our money back after
we're up and flying. For example (making up numbers here): if we take
$1000 upfront per member, half of that can be returned in 6 months if they
leave and 3/4 can returned in 12 months if they leave. Then after a
year we can take a vote and decide what we do with the down-payment; return
some of it, all of it or use it towards another plane for example.
(Just a thought)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>6. Going back to 976, I'm missing a gap somewhere in
this financing scheme. Why would we have to pony up $18,000? That
would leave only a $25,000 (roughly) loan. Why can't we refinance the
whole thing at $40k-ish and give Tim is money. Then we only have to come up
with $4,000 ($267 / 15 member). And can't we finance it after the plane
gets outfitted with new avs? Hence, finance the Garmin.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>7. I like the spreadsheet. The totals in green
appear to be bare minimum cost for 12 members. Assuming that, we will
have to round these numbers up to whatever reasonable amount can include a
slush fund/saving account.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Todd<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sat, 4/11/09, Steve Gordon <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><steve@media-phile.com></span></i></span></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: Steve Gordon <steve@media-phile.com><br>
Subject: RE: sample numbers<br>
To: "Eagle East Flying Club Core Team"
<eefc-core@workingcode.com><br>
Date: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 1:49 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I see your point. If we can roll in these
seemingly up front costs into the loan it might be more fair to all members
regardless of when they join or leave, and it's less of a burden to the
founding members. This is assuming the bank would allow us to finance
things such as an initial overhaul fund.<br>
<br>
I intentionally left the cost of a GPS NAV/COM out of the base costs to keep
the options simple. I asked a followup question in the survey asking if
members would be willing to spend approx $500 - $1,000 towards that
equipment. However, if that cost is rolled into the loan, we would need
to communicate a monthly dues increase. I can change the wording of the
folowup question to reflect what the monthly increase would be.<br>
<br>
Sent from Windows Mobile Smartphone.<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: James Carlson <<a
href="http://us.mc1113.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carlsonj@workingcode.com">carlsonj@workingcode.com</a>><br>
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 1:25 PM<br>
To: <a
href="http://us.mc1113.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=eefc-core@workingcode.com">eefc-core@workingcode.com</a><br>
Subject: RE: sample numbers<br>
<br>
Steve Gordon writes:<br>
> The one-time cost is a hard number to nail down because it depends very
much<br>
> on the particular aircraft we choose. It just happens that given
the<br>
> particular aircraft chosen as samples, the 172 has a higher one-time
cost<br>
> than the Cardinal. Since these are not necessarily the actual
aircraft we<br>
> will pursue, I thought we should give a range as we will not know the
actual<br>
> cost until we settle on something. <br>
<br>
Yep; the new spreadsheet does look pretty good. The SMOH handling was<br>
confusing at first until I figured out that you were recapturing the<br>
lost asset value from the members so that we'd have an adequate<br>
initial fund for repair later.<br>
<br>
These numbers don't seem to include the avionics we've been talking<br>
about, or at least it's unclear to me if they do (and they're just<br>
rolled into the overall purchase). The extra $10K up front for a 430W<br>
would need to go in somewhere, and it needn't necessarily go in the<br>
one-time cost. It could be financed. (I think we're probably
better<br>
off keeping as many things out of the one-time cost as we can, and<br>
borrowing more instead. The monthly cost doesn't get returned to<br>
those who leave the club, but at least part of the one-time cost might<br>
need to be.)<br>
<br>
If someone is in the club for (say) a year, I think it's completely<br>
fair that he pays his share for the financed fixed costs paid during<br>
that year, but it's probably not fair to charge him for the whole cost<br>
of the extras -- amount down, SMOH, or 430W. He didn't use those<br>
things up.<br>
<br>
Consider: suppose we just put the entire plane into the one-time cost.<br>
Those leaving would logically get their portion of the plane back;<br>
we'd buy up their share. Now suppose we finance everything. Those<br>
leaving would get nothing back, because they paid as they went. This<br>
argues to me that it's in the club's interest (and also fair) to make<br>
sure as much goes to the monthly dues as we can.<br>
<br>
In any event, none of the numbers are outrageous, so it feels like<br>
we're in the right area.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
James Carlson 42.703N 71.076W
<<a
href="http://us.mc1113.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carlsonj@workingcode.com">carlsonj@workingcode.com</a>><br>
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