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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I have to echo Todd a bit here because I feel like I missed
something. First let me say I don’t believe for a second that Eagle East is
trying to sell us on bailing them out; they are simply trying to work within
their means to reach a mutually beneficial agreement. However, given the new
information discovered today, it is possible that Eagle East is not able to lend
us the support we need.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If Eagle East’s notion of playing the bank was that we have to
front the total cost of 976, then how is that not simply an outright sale? Was
Sean referring to the yet to be determined amount of equity Eagle East feels
they hold above the 18K note? Is that the only amount that Eagle East has
proposed to finance for us? That does not sound attractive to me; not in the
least.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>According to Tim the reason he is unwilling to sign Eagle East’s
name to a new loan for us is because he may someday need credit to support Eagle
East. If Eagle East acted as the “cosigner” if you will, then it hurts Eagle
East’s ability to acquire new loans in the future. Please correct me if I
misunderstand this part. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So we have determined that 976 requires an engine overhaul and
likely a few more thousand dollars in squawks (new transponder, radio, etc). I
wonder then where Eagle East is going to get the money to perform the
maintenance. I understand they can perform the labor and finance the labor
costs, but parts need to be paid for. I know I’m just speculating, but it
seems unlikely that Eagle East will agree to finance the entire cost of the
overhaul and maintenance we need to get 976 flying safely – they would have to
take a significant financial hit to do so.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The reality is that this club, be it 976 or otherwise, can only
succeed by either requiring a very substantial up-front cost to all of its
members or by securing a loan. I believe that a substantial up-front cost
would drive away membership (I know I have my limits), and would require a more
complicated equity share system. I am speculating that Eagle East’s ability to
extend financing will be very limited. If Eagle East is in fact unable to
provide the financing we require, then it seems that the only way to get this
club off the ground would be for Eagle East to put their name on a bank loan.
Someone in the group said they heard Tim say “I want a club out of Eagle East”.
It may come down to how badly they want this club. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Boy I hate to sound like a downer. I suppose we’ll all know
more on Tuesday. Bob I., thanks for the productive discussions with Sean and
Tim.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>-Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
eefc-core-bounces@workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces@workingcode.com] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>toddmbs@yahoo.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 12, 2009 12:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Eagle East Flying Club Core Team<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Saturday meeting with Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
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<div id=yiv1126024551>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Well this is certainly a turn of events. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>With this scenario, EE isn't playing "the bank"
at all. We would be coming up with the entire amount up front, paying
off their loan giving them a profit. He then takes out a new note for
$10k? I don't see the financing part of this at all. Why do
they need that money if they were supposedly going to bank roll us? My
idea of EE playing "the bank" is EE takes out another loan
and WE pay it! <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>This is suddenly coming back around to looking like
Tim just wants to unload the plane because he can't sell it and
can't pay to put a new engine in it; and it feels like he's pulling
a sales pitch on us. I wasn't there to read Tim's face or anything, but
that's what it's sounding like in so many words.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Why wouldn't Tim be willing to guarantee a loan
through EE? If we fold, then he gets a plane with a brand new engine in
it that we had been paying down the principle on (at least 10% of).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Coming up with $300 or even $1,200 is one thing, but I'm
not willing to pay $4,000 to buy into 976 (and I doubt anyone else will
either). Now if 15 people wanted to buy a 2001 Cirrus SR22 with a
glass cockpit, well you can bet your rear end that I'll come up with $10k
before the next sunrise... but not for 976.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I'm perplexed by this new information. He won't be
guaranteeing anything if we just buy it straight out. That defeats the
purpose of this entire charade and is no better than all seven of us
just signing a personal guarantee on a loan ourselves.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Todd<br>
<br>
--- On <b>Sat, 4/11/09, Bob Irving <i><rhirving@verizon..net></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
From: Bob Irving <rhirving@verizon.net><br>
Subject: RE: Saturday meeting with Tim<br>
To: "'Eagle East Flying Club Core Team'"
<eefc-core@workingcode.com><br>
Date: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 7:54 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=yiv553378813>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Exactly.
I told him I didn’t think we could raise the money to pay him $33,000
down. But he needs to convince Bill to let us finance the cost of the
engine with EE. Let’s see what the result of their meeting is.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
eefc-core-bounces@workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces@workingcode.com] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>williammccann@comcast.net<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 11, 2009 7:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Eagle East Flying Club Core Team<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Saturday meeting with Tim</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Bob,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Why
can't we offer Tim $ 33,000. for 976. Let them put in a new engine at their
cost, and clean up the squawks noted by Jim.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The
engine is timed out and I don't think Tim wants to add another $ 10 to
$ 15 thousand to the $ 18,000 he already owes.If 15 members </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>buy
in at $1200 each we could clean up his $18,000. We could finance
the balance with Tim , and if the club folds the plane goes back to
Eagle.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>We
should treat this as a business decision , let him take the risk so there
isn't a problem with any individual being held responsible.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>$
20,000 for the plane ,$ 13,000 for the engine , he's off the hook and we have
a plane. They will profit from the annuals ,maintenance, fuel and any </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>add
ons that I'm sure we will want to include. It's a start !!!!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "James Carlson" <carlsonj@workingcode.com><br>
To: "Eagle East Flying Club Core Team"
<eefc-core@workingcode.com><br>
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 5:36:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>
Subject: Re: Saturday meeting with Tim<br>
<br>
Bob Irving writes:<br>
> I met again today with Tim and Sean. First, if we wished to
purchase<br>
> something other than 976, Tim can NOT guarantee that purchase.
(That's just<br>
> a business decision on his part - he doesn't want to risk using any<br>
> remaining credit he might have with his bank because he might need it
for<br>
> operating capital). Since none among us would be willing to
provide the<br>
<br>
Yep; I think that's what we all understood, and it makes sense that he<br>
wouldn't be interested in guaranteeing anyone else's plane.<br>
<br>
> personal guarantees necessary to finance the purchase of a used plane -<br>
> further consideration of the 40k/50k/60k options is an exercise in
futility.<br>
<br>
That seems a shame.<br>
<br>
> 15k additional cost (probably a low estimate), EE is expecting that we
would<br>
> pay the current note balance (18,000) plus the cost of the new engine<br>
> (15,000) as the "down payment". That's a total of $33,000 or
more in down<br>
> payment . ($2,200 each for 15 members/$3,300 each for 10 members/$4,700
each<br>
> for 7 members). He would be willing to take a note for the balance
owed -<br>
> whatever that might be. They will have the hard number for us on
Tuesday. <br>
<br>
Ouch. Maybe there's some wiggle room in there. I realize they
want<br>
to get the $18,000 debt itself off the books in case they need to<br>
borrow, but if we were to just take over the payments for that note<br>
instead, then that'd help their immediate cash position.<br>
<br>
$3000 would be a lot to ask for a down payment, but I might be able to<br>
manage it if things ahead look brighter, and especially if we can<br>
figure out how to return that money over time.<br>
<br>
> I will hold off on any survey until we get these latest issues figured
out.<br>
> Personally, I might go for $2,200 but more than that is a stretch under
this<br>
> form of ownership. Comments ????<br>
<br>
Maybe we need to talk with a bank. Depending on the exact liability<br>
involved, I would probably be ok with signing for a loan. (It seems<br>
that BoA requires insurance on the loan itself, but I'm not sure who<br>
is liable first, and that makes a big difference.)<br>
<br>
-- <br>
James Carlson 42.703N 71.076W
<carlsonj@workingcode.com><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
eefc-core mailing list<br>
eefc-core@workingcode.com<br>
https://www.workingcode.com/mailman/listinfo/eefc-core</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<o:p></o:p></p>
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