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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I
know the news is disappointing but I’m certain Tim is as surprised as we are.
First, when this was initially proposed he did not know the engine was run out.
Second, I have complete confidence in Tim to say that he is not simply trying
to unload 976. He did think he could bootstrap us and was/is eager to try. Third,
if you have ever run a business through trying circumstances like the economy
we are in now you can understand a reluctance to use whatever credit you might
have remaining (if any)on anything that is not an absolute requirement. It is
sound business judgment.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Given
the zero time engine need, Bill Eason is the critical point right now. If he
agrees to “finance” the engine and other repairs we might have a deal. If he
can’t, we probably have nothing.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>To
answer another question, Sean commented previously that he “thinks” 976 has
4100 hrs TT – but he never confirmed this even though I asked for full specs
from him.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bill’s
comment that we should consider only the note (18,000) and the engine/squawks (20,000
– my estimate) as the max we would be willing to pay for 976 is the correct
strategy at this point, in my opinion. The problem is how do we pay for it. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Enjoy
the day. Happy Easter to all.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bob<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
eefc-core-bounces@workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces@workingcode.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Steve Gordon<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:38
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'Eagle East Flying Club Core
Team'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Saturday meeting with
Tim<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I
have to echo Todd a bit here because I feel like I missed something.
First let me say I don’t believe for a second that Eagle East is trying to sell
us on bailing them out; they are simply trying to work within their means to
reach a mutually beneficial agreement. However, given the new information
discovered today, it is possible that Eagle East is not able to lend us the
support we need.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If
Eagle East’s notion of playing the bank was that we have to front the total
cost of 976, then how is that not simply an outright sale? Was Sean
referring to the yet to be determined amount of equity Eagle East feels they
hold above the 18K note? Is that the only amount that Eagle East has
proposed to finance for us? That does not sound attractive to me; not in
the least.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>According
to Tim the reason he is unwilling to sign Eagle East’s name to a new loan for
us is because he may someday need credit to support Eagle East. If Eagle
East acted as the “cosigner” if you will, then it hurts Eagle East’s ability to
acquire new loans in the future. Please correct me if I misunderstand
this part. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So we
have determined that 976 requires an engine overhaul and likely a few more
thousand dollars in squawks (new transponder, radio, etc). I wonder then
where Eagle East is going to get the money to perform the maintenance. I
understand they can perform the labor and finance the labor costs, but parts
need to be paid for. I know I’m just speculating, but it seems unlikely that
Eagle East will agree to finance the entire cost of the overhaul and
maintenance we need to get 976 flying safely – they would have to take a
significant financial hit to do so.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The
reality is that this club, be it 976 or otherwise, can only succeed by either
requiring a very substantial up-front cost to all of its members or by securing
a loan. I believe that a substantial up-front cost would drive away
membership (I know I have my limits), and would require a more complicated
equity share system. I am speculating that Eagle East’s ability to extend
financing will be very limited. If Eagle East is in fact unable to
provide the financing we require, then it seems that the only way to get this
club off the ground would be for Eagle East to put their name on a bank
loan. Someone in the group said they heard Tim say “I want a club out of
Eagle East”. It may come down to how badly they want this club. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Boy I
hate to sound like a downer. I suppose we’ll all know more on
Tuesday. Bob I., thanks for the productive discussions with Sean and Tim.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-Steve<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
eefc-core-bounces@workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces@workingcode.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>toddmbs@yahoo.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, April 12, 2009 12:47
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Eagle East Flying Club Core
Team<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Saturday meeting with
Tim<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<div id=yiv1126024551>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Well this is certainly a turn of events. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>With this scenario, EE isn't playing "the
bank" at all. We would be coming up with the entire amount up
front, paying off their loan giving them a profit. He then takes out a
new note for $10k? I don't see the financing part of this at
all. Why do they need that money if they were supposedly going to bank
roll us? My idea of EE playing "the bank" is EE
takes out another loan and WE pay it! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>This is suddenly coming back around to looking
like Tim just wants to unload the plane because he can't sell it and
can't pay to put a new engine in it; and it feels like he's pulling
a sales pitch on us. I wasn't there to read Tim's face or anything, but
that's what it's sounding like in so many words.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Why wouldn't Tim be willing to guarantee a loan
through EE? If we fold, then he gets a plane with a brand new engine in
it that we had been paying down the principle on (at least 10% of).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Coming up with $300 or even $1,200 is one thing, but
I'm not willing to pay $4,000 to buy into 976 (and I doubt anyone else
will either). Now if 15 people wanted to buy a 2001 Cirrus SR22
with a glass cockpit, well you can bet your rear end that I'll come up with
$10k before the next sunrise... but not for 976.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I'm perplexed by this new information. He
won't be guaranteeing anything if we just buy it straight out. That defeats
the purpose of this entire charade and is no better than all seven of us
just signing a personal guarantee on a loan ourselves.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Todd<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sat, 4/11/09, Bob Irving <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><rhirving@verizon..net></span></i></span></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: Bob Irving <rhirving@verizon.net><br>
Subject: RE: Saturday meeting with Tim<br>
To: "'Eagle East Flying Club Core Team'"
<eefc-core@workingcode.com><br>
Date: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 7:54 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=yiv553378813>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Exactly. I told him I didn’t think we
could raise the money to pay him $33,000 down. But he needs to convince
Bill to let us finance the cost of the engine with EE. Let’s see what
the result of their meeting is.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> eefc-core-bounces@workingcode.com
[mailto:eefc-core-bounces@workingcode.com] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>williammccann@comcast.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, April 11, 2009
7:16 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Eagle East Flying Club Core
Team<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Saturday meeting
with Tim</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Bob,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Why
can't we offer Tim $ 33,000. for 976. Let them put in a new engine at their
cost, and clean up the squawks noted by Jim.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The
engine is timed out and I don't think Tim wants to add another $ 10 to
$ 15 thousand to the $ 18,000 he already owes.If 15 members </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>buy in
at $1200 each we could clean up his $18,000. We could finance
the balance with Tim , and if the club folds the plane goes back to
Eagle.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>We
should treat this as a business decision , let him take the risk so there
isn't a problem with any individual being held responsible.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>$
20,000 for the plane ,$ 13,000 for the engine , he's off the hook and we have
a plane. They will profit from the annuals ,maintenance, fuel and any </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
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that I'm sure we will want to include. It's a start !!!!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "James Carlson" <carlsonj@workingcode.com><br>
To: "Eagle East Flying Club Core Team"
<eefc-core@workingcode.com><br>
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 5:36:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>
Subject: Re: Saturday meeting with Tim<br>
<br>
Bob Irving writes:<br>
> I met again today with Tim and Sean. First, if we wished to
purchase<br>
> something other than 976, Tim can NOT guarantee that purchase.
(That's just<br>
> a business decision on his part - he doesn't want to risk using any<br>
> remaining credit he might have with his bank because he might need it
for<br>
> operating capital). Since none among us would be willing to
provide the<br>
<br>
Yep; I think that's what we all understood, and it makes sense that he<br>
wouldn't be interested in guaranteeing anyone else's plane.<br>
<br>
> personal guarantees necessary to finance the purchase of a used plane -<br>
> further consideration of the 40k/50k/60k options is an exercise in
futility.<br>
<br>
That seems a shame.<br>
<br>
> 15k additional cost (probably a low estimate), EE is expecting that we
would<br>
> pay the current note balance (18,000) plus the cost of the new engine<br>
> (15,000) as the "down payment". That's a total of $33,000 or
more in down<br>
> payment . ($2,200 each for 15 members/$3,300 each for 10 members/$4,700
each<br>
> for 7 members). He would be willing to take a note for the balance
owed -<br>
> whatever that might be. They will have the hard number for us on
Tuesday. <br>
<br>
Ouch. Maybe there's some wiggle room in there. I realize they
want<br>
to get the $18,000 debt itself off the books in case they need to<br>
borrow, but if we were to just take over the payments for that note<br>
instead, then that'd help their immediate cash position.<br>
<br>
$3000 would be a lot to ask for a down payment, but I might be able to<br>
manage it if things ahead look brighter, and especially if we can<br>
figure out how to return that money over time.<br>
<br>
> I will hold off on any survey until we get these latest issues figured
out.<br>
> Personally, I might go for $2,200 but more than that is a stretch under
this<br>
> form of ownership. Comments ????<br>
<br>
Maybe we need to talk with a bank. Depending on the exact liability<br>
involved, I would probably be ok with signing for a loan. (It seems<br>
that BoA requires insurance on the loan itself, but I'm not sure who<br>
is liable first, and that makes a big difference.)<br>
<br>
-- <br>
James Carlson 42.703N 71.076W
<carlsonj@workingcode.com><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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eefc-core@workingcode.com<br>
https://www.workingcode.com/mailman/listinfo/eefc-core</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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